Propaganda im eigenen Beitrag

Ukraine Russische Propaganda scheint präsenter zu sein in meinem Gedankenbild als ich angenommen hatte. Ja sie scheint sogar die ganze Ukraine zu spalten.
Bei diesem Beitrag handelt es sich um ein Blog aus der Freitag-Community

Durch einen Beitrag in der Community wurde ich auf einen Artikel in einem relativ bekannten Blog aufmerksam. http://alles-schallundrauch.blogspot.de/2014/09/euromaidan-aushangeschild-andert-ihre.html#ixzz3EMRvzHMz

Ruslana, Eurovision Song Contest Gewinnerin 2004 und Sinnbild des Maidan, auf dem sie jeden Abend gesungen hat, spricht sich in einem Interview gegen die ATO und gegen Poroshenko aus.

"Ich kam nach Donetsk und sah etwas, dass ich nicht erwartete zu sehen. Es hat sprichwörtlich meinen Kopf gesprengt. Es fallen Granaten auf unsere Leute!" sagte die aufgebrachte Ruslana. "Es ist notwenig und einfach - sofort muss ein Waffenstillstand her, das Ende des Krieges und des Blutvergiessens. Und wenn die Politiker anders denken, dann bedeutet es, da ist etwas faul, dann werden schmutzige Spiele getrieben." und "Wenn Sie so mutig sind, dann kommen sie mit mir nächstes Mal," lud die Sängerin einen Reporter aus Kiew ein. "Dann werden sie in der Lage sein alles zu sehen und mich verstehen." wird sie zitiert.

Der Besuch im Donbass fand bereits Ende August zusammen mit Generaloberst Wladimir Ruban statt. Auch ich hatte in einem Artikel kurz geschrieben, dass Ruslana Poroshenko die Schuld gibt und sich gegen die ATO ausspricht. https://www.freitag.de/autoren/julian-k/warum-tut-der-westen-was-er-tut Den Hinweis darauf hatte ich aus einer Schweizer Onlinezeitung.

Beim googlen von Ruslana stieß ich dann auf einen Artikel in der Tiroler Tageszeitung, die allerdings berichtet, dass Ruslana sich vor dem Europaparlament für Waffenlieferungen an die Ukraine stark gemacht hat. Der Auftritt war nach dem Besuch im Donbass, was doch sehr verwunderlich war.

Dann stellte ich fest, dass der Blog gar nicht das Original Video verlinkt. Das original, mit fast 2 Millionen aufrufen ist dieses und ist ein russisches Propaganda Video. Es ist zwar echt und auch die Übersetzung ist korrekt, alerdings fehlt der weitere Verlauf des Interviews in dem Ruslana ganz klar Putin die Schuld gibt. Das Land sei gespalten worden durch russische Propaganda und russische Söldner und Soldaten. Der Osten und Westen soll sich vereinigen um den gemeinsamen Feind Putin zu bekämpfen. Hier ein kurzer Bericht und das Original Video http://www.unian.net/politics/957733-s-dnr-dogovoreno-chto-ukrainskih-plennyih-ne-budut-pyitat-tsentr-obmena-plennyimi.html (Google Chrome Übersetzer reicht zum reinschauen).

Wie einfach es ist darauf rein zu fallen sagen schon die 7000 likes im Gegensatz zu 1700 dislikes und auch ich habe mich geärgert das geglaubt zu haben. Als ich unter dem Video auf Englisch fragte ob mir jemand bestätigen kann, dass das Video Propaganda ist, startete ein Ukrainer eine sehr aufschlussreiche Diskussion mit mir. Eigentlich war es keine Diskussion sondern er erzählte mir seine sehr detailreiche Version des Maidans. Ich zitiere erst einmal ein paar Ausschnitte und veröffentliche den ganzen Beitrag am Ende, da er doch recht lang ist. Es ist leider auf Englisch und auch grammatikalisch manchmal nicht ganz einfach zu lesen aber dennoch unglaublich aufschlussreich. Er erzählt von den Gründen der Demos und der Situation auf dem Maidan und in Lwiw, von Anfang bis Ende, von der schlimmer werdenden Korruption als einen der Gründe, von Polizeigewalt bis hin zum Mord, von den Faschisten, von den Anfängen des Separatismus im Osten, von starker russischer Propaganda, den Einfluss von Oligarchen, der Krim, von der Svoboda und der derzeitigen Regierung. Also eigentlich genau das, was mir die letzten Monate gefehlt hat- Hintergrundinformationen. Also erstmal ein paar Auschnitte:

...Since 2004 Yanukovych began to contradistinguish Ukraine East (especially Donbass) to West and say that "Donbass all feeds" that "Western nationalists hate the Russian language." This is not true - it Donbass region "eats" most of subsidies from the budget. And we in the West perceive absolutely normal Russian language. Yes, West Ukraine is different from the East. It was only from 1945 in the Soviet Union. By that time - in the part of Poland or Austria-Hungary. But the cultural unity was always - here I can tell history from Kievan Rus, Bohdan Khmelnitsky, romantic 19th century. etc :)))
So I live in Lvov, which Russian propaganda calls "the basic unit of nationalism and fascism." In our city less than one million residents, 9% are Russians. Absolutely free on our streets everyone can speak Russian. We have 5 Russian schools, a Russian church, the Russian Cultural Centre. (for comparison - in the Crimea 25% Ukrainians and only 7 Ukrainian schools in the entire peninsula!, and now its are closing)...

...We tried to create a cultural exchange between the two regions - Lviv University make special quotas for training residents of Donbass, we make exchanges between institutions and exchanges between theater (I had recently worked in the theater), at Christmas we always invited students and children from Donbass to celebrate with us in West Ukraine, we settle them in chummeries or volunteer's families (Donbas haven't tradition ​​to celebrate Christmas, this tradition died there in Soviet times). Unfortunately, it was a drop in the sea of propaganda of contrasting "different parts of the country". And in the east constantly press and television (which belonged to the local criminal richmen) did this opposition, and Russian news agencies actively developed this subject last 10 years. This is a history for you to understand what's happen next...

...The protests on Maidan Russian television and channels controlled by Yanukovych constantly exposed mercenaries bought by Americans, and then said "They are Nazis". This is not true - Maidan existed for their own money (I was there myself, though not always). Just look at the clothes people and homemade shields and plastic thin helmets to understand that there are no strong financial support. And who shall stand in the cold, without sleep, in appalling conditions, with danger of being beaten, arrested, and later became a real threat of being killed - for which money is that possible? Then they came up with a new course - "Nazis." But it's not true, Maidan was never against the Russians. It was against crime, for human rights and the right of our country to choose its own course without the brutal pressure of the neighboring country. On the Maidan Russian language sounded no less frequently than Ukrainian, and also there was a lot of Jews, Armenians, Tatars, Georgians, Poles, etc. - Well, of which fascism can talk? But to the east and Russia constantly showed all the worst point of view: they showed homeless, which occurred on the square, and especially filmed radical wing of the Maidan (of course, in every movement is some kind of radical wing). I am sure that this wing, there were people who really believed that the country is best to act radically...

...I was in Kiev, December 1, after a very brutal beating of students protesters, when came to protest people from all over Ukraine. And then the evening is far later after a peaceful rally a small group of masked men went for some reason "to storm the presidential administration" - I can quite honestly testify that while in the street no one seriously was going for any storm, there was really no such sentiment. And that could count and a handful of young people wearing masks? Moreover, people from the Maidan when they saw these provocateurs rushed to stop them. But they waved bats and chains in front of the police, and then they hid behind .... rows of the same police. But then these shots from provocateurs started showing in the Donbas and to show as non-peaceful Maidan. Moreover - they interchanged events: shown if the first provocation took place near the presidential administration, and then "these aggressive protesters" was rightfully beaten by the police...

...Then appeared "titushky" - these athletes, which employs by authority in order to beat protesters. So the police net, because it does not beat, and protesters can be intimidating. They beat everyone who looked like the protesters, and then became generally no safe away from the Maidan square. Later started to smash the cars. First - cars with ribbons of color of the national flag, and then all indiscriminately - to more chaos in order that the government was able to say, "Maidan - is chaos."...

...And after all these appeared Molotov cocktail. It is hard to expect from people who are peacefully and they was beaten again and again that they will stand there and just wait new beating.
So - Poroshenko and Yatseniuk and Klitschko and Turchinov, which you blame the aggression - they tried to restrain people how they can, they convinced people in a peaceful solution, until it was possible. But when Yanukovych passed laws January 16 and we even was banned to protest, walk and ride more than 5 in group - all experienced their lives and basic human rights real threat. People went to protest to the parliament. They was blocked by the police (although we have no such law banning people en masse to go to parliament). And then began the fight. Sounded first shots of traumatic weapons and flew the first Molotov cocktail. It was scary. Police at least had ammunition and helmets, but clothing of protesters and thin plastic construction helmets protected too little...

...They did not want to disperse the crowd, they wanted to destroy it. Then they poured water on people on a cold -20 degrees Celsius ... but most importantly - revealed, that fired not only traumatic weapons. Then was shot five people ...

...And of course to the east and Russia their television showed only "aggressive protesters" with reasons why they suddenly no longer peaceful. And they told: you see - the Nazis!
And the effect of television is terribly difficult to remove. How many people I communicated - they can not believe that they have so much distorted information, it is too difficult to realise and suddenly see very different picture of events in which all what they like is disgusting and criminal...

...When the violent confrontation on Instytutska (street leading from the Maidan to the parliament) already began almost every day there continued clashes...

...Therefore was important presence of moral authority - the most authoritative persons on Maidan were not politicians, but priests, singers (Ruslana, Svyatoslav Vakarchuk and others), writers and also - journalists, who have confidence and adequately covered the events on Maidan (many of them over the Maidan were beaten, in their aiming the camera shot, etc) - these people could reassure and convince the crowd to not make something wrong...

...So there are Maidan requirements:

* before beating students November 30, 2013
- The signing of the association agreement with the EU
- Retirement Azarov government or at least the Minister of Foreign Affairs

* after November 30,
+
- Investigation and judgement for guilty of beating
- Dissolution of the police unit "Berkut", which was involved in beating
- The resignation of Interior Minister

* after laws January 16, 2014 (which banned protests)
+
- The abolition of laws January 16
- Retirement Azarov government
- The dissolution of parliament and early elections

* after February 18
+
- Yanukovych's resignation and judgement for him and his henchmen, guilty of mass casualties...

...The police in this country became a attendants of wealthy men's interests in power - not as a metaphor, but literally. The courts were
corrupt and "selling" - and all knew about it...

...And so it was - they continued "wring out" business, entrepreneurs make own deal was for small and medium buisness almost impossible.
Belonging to Yanukovych's friends or to Yanukovych's party ("Party of Regions") gave indulgence for any purpose. It was impossible to
achieve fairness and justice in the courts - no one dared and did not want to take a decision unfavorable power. Social activists who
were protesting against any illegal actions - just immediately arrested and condemned...

...(Yanukovych's son Alexander after Yanukovych presidency, almost from scratch became one of the 100 richest in Ukraine, and a year
later - one of 50)...

...And besides was still a problem that Yanukovych phased out all ukrainian culture - decreased number of Ukrainian media (even in my Lviv, most Ukrainian city in Ukraine, if you approach the booth - see most publications in Russian), decreased number of Ukrainian school classes in the East and in Crimea, even on public channels almost stopped sounding songs in Ukrainian, cultural transmission about Ukraine. Understand it right - no one was against the Russian language, but in Ukraine as former colonies in Russia - ukrainian language is problem. Russian language is not dissapearing, in anyway it has country - the focus of development. Where can develop Ukrainian language, if not in Ukraine?....

...It was in the wake of protests against all this the many of west ukrainians voted for the right-wing party "Svoboda" ("Freedom"). About it tell that it was a Nazi, etc. but this is not quite true - although it does have a fairly aggressive rhetoric. But people hoped that the party became passionate fighter against Yanukovych regime. However, on Maidan this policy partia proved particularly helpless. Personally I can not stand them, I think it uncultural. As far as I can see,ukrainian people in the party very disappointed. In the presidential election for "Svoboda" voted less then 1 %. ...

...It's about the conditions before the revolution. To help you understand - how desperate our situation was. In 2004, the Supreme Court
of Ukraine decided to re-run presidential election and thus legitimately and peacefully decided the contemporary crisis. Now there was no hope of any court or parliament. Yanukovych has usurped all power...

...While after the confrontation began on Instytutska, started kidnapping. Protesters are just kidnapped from the streets (yet still we
have dozens missing, about which no information). Someone then was arrested and immediately sentenced to several years (!). And many of them was found in the forest near Kyiv. Someone was just beaten and mutilated. And someone - dead. People was abducted just from hospitals even when they sought after injuries from these confrontations...

.... Europe and the United States "expressed concern." But Russia said about "fascist criminals attacked peace police...

...Yanukovych began back in January levy troops to Kyiv to disperse Maidan. But people throughout Ukraine have started to block the troops. Eg in Lviv we did barricade near military units to prevent them from leaving...

....Yanukovych even call to Kyiv not the police, but armed forces.... I heard a lot of battalions refused to go to Kyiv. Yanukovych even changed Commander ground forces.... but some battalions paratroopers from the east arrived yet. And just started hell.... Maidan stormed by tanks, armored personnel carriers.... Many people then fled from the Maidan square. But many gathered that night and went to Kyiv. I remember crowds of men with self-made "body armor" from "sleeping pads" at Bus Stops. It was like war. . In the morning it turned out that people are killed dozens. Their funeral priests just in hotel corridors, doctors were unable to even examine someone...

.... People on Independence defended from attack only by fire - Cocktails and all that was able to fire. Initially burning machine tires because they create a curtain of fire that is difficult to overcome. But then, calla tires were low, thrown into the fire all - boards, foam, their tents, even stripped off their clothes and thrown into the fire. And thenbegan to approach people from different regions. I do not know how it would help to survive. They say some people who had home legal firearms began to bring her to the Maidan. People defended to the last. And then suddenly in the morning troops retreated. And in the morning during the retreat died dozens of people from the Maidan.... Yanukovych packed their treasures and fled from Ukraine....

...After all that passed on television, many of the locals were really convinced that the Nazis came to power, they want "to ban the Russian language", etc. etc. And that they will kill all Russians. Then came out the idea of separatism these areas

...The events in the Donbass. After all that passed on television, many of the locals were really convinced that the Nazis came to power, they want "to ban the Russian language", etc. etc. And that they will kill all Russians. Then came out the idea of separatism these areas, although any separate nation is not there, by censuses real majority (over 55%) identified themselves as Ukrainian. This is from 2004, as I told was started propaganda of division of Ukraine, and local rich men and politicians (in this region - this is the same things) started to use separatism as a means of blackmail when they were in opposition. When adopted laws unfavorable to their business or them personally threatened criminal investigation - they are taken out their workers in factories to demonstration to shout that "Donbass isn't heard by" and that "this is oppression of our region." After escaping Yanukovych some local rich men such as Akhmetov wanted in this usual way to bargain from a new government about integrity of their business and a lack of investigations origin of their capital. But miscalculated and lose, because Russia very seriously joined the game...

...The presence of Russia. From the very beginning of these protests, local residents clearly knew that these actions of breaking Ukrainian flags, shouting "we want to Russia" and stormed regional administrations take part many people from Russia. My friend, who until recently worked as a director in the Puppet Theater in Lugansk, told that distinguish between local residents and visitors from Russia is not very difficult - different pronunciations, in other words, and do not oriented on the locality. On one occasion, instead go to storm of regional council they came to storm Drama theatre, for they thought that it is Council :) Local ресідентс ironically called such visits with the up-and-downers "The Days of Russian Culture"...

...But really some part of their locals supported this (though as say my friends, there was actually a lot of drug addicts, homeless people, which is very easy to buy - so it is easy and there arose slaughter), was also part of the pensioners who have nostalgia for the Soviet Union. There wasn't too many supporters of Maidan in donbass, it's true. But most of locals didn't care and didn't want anyway take part in this all. No one thought that it will develop into a full war...

....General events in the East, in contrast to the Maidan - absolutely anti-cultural. No culture, no any significant artist, a scientist or even any significant religious figure in protests in the East (on Maidan were always the most visible priests of all religions, even the Moscow Patriarchate of Ukraine, himself saw) ....

...Nobody forbade Russian language and wasn't going to do that. No "Nazis" went to kill people in the East
or in the Crimea (if in Lviv? where I live, it wasn't anything like this - why someone with such a purpose would be to go to the East?....

....One should pay attention to the fact that Russia talks about these events as "response similar Maidan" and "reflection Maidan's events." But it is not. Maidan has been peaceful for a long time, but in Donbass events immediately began from slaughters.....

"And then more - people were beaten not only by the "wrong line", but also for suspicious look or for absence capture the ideas of separatism"

...They was kept in inhumane conditions in the basement of 70 days!....

....And when the local council deputy of Gorlivka (Donetsk region), a supporter of Ukraine Volodymyr Rybak, who tried to prevent Ukrainian reset flag, found in the river with ripped stomach .... it became clear that the line is crossed, that is no longer the protests, it is terrorism....

.... If it was just to "bomb" - the anti-terrorist operation would be completed in July....

....Do You believe me when I say that during the negotiations military actions some of my friends talked to these military personal and none of them make secret that they - the soldiers of Russia? ....

.... Corpses of these sons buried here in Ukraine with no name plate, or bring home and said "died on learning."....

Think, seek information from various sources, please. I am always ready to help.
Sorry again, but I haven't any energy for Odessa. Promise to continue tomorrow

ganze Diskussion auf Seite 2 und 3

Ein Bericht aus eigener Sicht und erlebtem und Informationen von Freunden und Bekannten und der ganzen Situation in der Ukraine. Ich habe ihm geantwortet und er hat auch schon wieder geschrieben, aber ich hab es mir noch nich durchgelesen.

Meine Antwort:

so much informations, thank you. I see that i had the wrong view of the situation in the Ukraine. But 2013 35% of ukrainian people said that they don´t want to join the EU. What is with them? The EU said that a EU association and eurasian union is not possible together. Also Russia said that Nato membership for Ukraine is a problem. I see the crisis as a conflict of interests between Nato/USA/EU and Russia. The Ukraine is unfortonately the ball in this game and the west also don´t want to play this game. But the USA already promised the Ukraine a Nato membership in 2008 and also the revolution was a punch in russias economy interests. This is not the fault of the Ukraine. The west supported the revolution but ignored Russia. In Germany many ex politicans and militarys say the crisis is the wests fault. The annexion of the crimea and the "war" in the east was predictable. Proceedings about the Nato membership and adjustment of the EU-association. That without cons for the Ukraine but Russia have to be integrated in this association. Open borders for western interests means significance confinement for Russia and also the donbass region. And i don´t think, that the annexation of the crimea was planned. A date on a medal is no proof. The USA promised the Ukraine a Nato membership. Putin would loose his Black Sea Fleet if the new president want to join the Nato. Simferpol is his only warm water harbour. And now it is Poroshenko who have to back down only because our politicans dont want to see their mistakes. And now you have a land split in 2 parts due to russian propaganda. So far i thought, that it is a real conflict between east and west Ukraine and Putin assists the east, but now i think its only Putins propaganda that split the Ukraine. Can you tell me something about Wladimir Ruban? And something about the media in the east? Where get the people in the east their informations about the crisis? Are russian media more present than ukrainian?

Nachtrag: i formulated wrong. i dont want to say that i dont believe you that there are russian soldiers in Ukraine. but i thought Putin only support the people who dont want to geht shoot. But now i see its only Propaganda from Putin that makes this mindset. Can you tell me something about the current situation in Ukraine? can it be that the one Nationalist Batailon only defend Mariupol due to the fact that western ukrainian dont want to fight the easten ukrainian people?

Julian K

vor 1 Tag

i´m from germany and heard that ruslana tells that there aren´t russian soldiers in east ukraine and that poroshenko is bombing his own people. is this true?

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ТарасФедорчак

vor 1 Tag

No, you didn't understand. Ruslana said about the poor coordination between the Ukrainian military. She absolutely didn't talk about the lack of the armed forces of Russian in Ukraine, on the contrary.

For more information, - follow Ruslana's Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/ruslana.lyzhychko.5?ref=ts&fref=ts

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Julian K

vor 1 Tag

+ТарасФедорчак can you give me a short summary please? in germany you get tons of informations but dont know whats true and whats not.

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Julian K

vor 1 Tag

ah ok there is a english summary on her facebook site, thanks

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Тарас Федорчак

vor 1 Tag (bearbeitet)

+Julian K

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ТарасФедорчак

vor 1 Tag+Julian K This small part was taken out of context of the larger interview Ruslana. Ruslan said about Ukrainian soldiers release from captivity, the exchange of prisoners and the need for peace talks (this was before the Minsk agreement).

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ТарасФедорчак

vor 1 Tag

+Julian K

Ask me what you interests. I was on the Maidan with many friends, I live in Lviv in western Ukraine, I have friends and relatives who live (or recently lived) in the Crimea, Luhansk, in Krematorsk (near Donetsk), in Odessa, Kharkiv, Kyiv and so on. etc.. Also, I have friends who are now at the front as soldiers and journalists. I am ready to answer all you questions, tell all that I know that without embellishment. Ask me. You can write me on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001008028018 or mail me teatruw4e@gmail.com

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Julian K

vor 1 Tag

+ТарасФедорчак i have tons of questions but i don´t think that you can give me more than an opinion to the most of them. It is hard to understand for me, that the ukrainian people support the bombing against the donbass. there is no doubt that putin annex the crimea but your government blame Putin for all following escalation. Have you seen any clear evidence for russian troops send by Putins government? What do you think about poroshenko and jazenjuk? The west is supporting them allthough they are permanent lying. What do you think about the USA? You know that there was monitored a phone call in february, between Nuland and the Ukrainian US-ambassador and they are talking about Jazenjuk and Nuland said he is "our man". Kiew also is spreading Propaganda in the same way as Putin. Our media getting to hear more and more critic because they are spreading Kiews announcements without verifying them. Don´t misunderstand me, i wish you and the ukraine all the best and you´re welcome in the EU. But your government make massive mistakes and is provoking russia. More and more politican in the west says that the Nato expansion is/was a huge mistake. What your friends and relatives are telling you about the situation in donbass? And what do you think happened in Odessa? And can you tell me something about wladimir ruban? I heard that he said that there aren´t Kreml troops in the east ( that was ca 1,5 months ago).

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Тарас Федорчак

vor 1 Tag (bearbeitet)

+Julian K I have tons of answers. ;)

I think you don't get the real information what happening ​​in Ukraine. Moreover, I see you get a lot of information from Russian sources, because repeating the same distortions like in russian TV. You see, when you live here, you have friends everywhere in Ukraine, including on the front. And you can get first, in extreme cases, second-hand, you can verify the information.
I have a good idea of Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk. I think they are doing their best to save our country. And I don't see why they can be blamed for some significant lie.
Of course we have heard here this overheard conversation of Nuland))). I am sure that the different sides, countries (neighbors and distant countries), have their own interests and the vision that they would be profitable. But I do not think the phrase "our people" should mean "our agent" or "our puppet", rather "a man's position and activity is beneficial to us." And in this I do not see anything criminal. Not the USA entered their troops to us.
How can you say that our government "provokes Russia" ?! You understand that now we feel like a man, whom is raped? We watch our territory is taken by force, invasion mercenaries and terrorists, we are trying to defend themselves, and the other countries standing far from us and discussing - to help or not? Maybe let him rape because he has gas? Even saying that we too actively resist to rape and "provoke Russia." You understand that we feel ?! There are any laws in this world or not? Annexation of the Crimea by Russia violated Helsinki Final Act, The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances, which she herself was the guarantor of our territorial integrity. Russia send terrorists and even the regular army to us - and the world cann't force her to comply with any laws ?? And "we provoke Russia" ??!
You say "Kiew also is spreading Propaganda in the same way as Putin" - but it is not nearly so. Putin's propaganda often rearranges the order of events, invents facts about "crucified Children", which wasn't anyway, called our government "junta" although it is not nearly so (our authorities - quite legitimately elected, moreover, aren't military, but most leaders in the authority in Russia - are military).
(by the way Kiew - this is not quite correct name our capital, that is the russian version. From Ukrainian language - Kyiv)

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ТарасФедорчак

vor 1 Tag

+Julian K

On the situation in the Donbas. This is problematic region - in terms of economy, education, environment, crime rate, there widespread drug addiction and alcoholism (I don't slanderest, there is statistic - eg. largest number of poisonings and alcoholic psychoses in Ukraine was registered in Donetsk region - about 6000 per year). Since 1990 there are remained the biggest oligarchs who built their wealth on plunder, and even worse. They had all these years in authority in the these areas. Top billionaires Ukraine (eg. Akhmetov) are from there. And Yanukovych - a typical henchman of that environment. He doesn't help to his region. There was a too little work and left the same . Basic earnings for people in donbas - go into the mine where very old equipment and every day you have the risk of death. Education is not for everyone there and there are a very few alternatives for working miner, especially in smaller cities. Many people works in underground illegal mines - and this is a greater risk to life. About 20 years ago it was the region where was the largest protests against the economic policy of the government (but only economic, no national problems), although they chose this government and - over the years of Ukrainian independence was only one president who wasn't supported by Donbass (Yushchenko), for all the rest Donbass voted majority of population. So it's falseness, that the rest of Ukraine "not heard Donbas". Then just protesting miners, because they demanded a decent wage for their risk. But later, when the authorities in the region finally came to the criminal authorities, the protest trade union's movement there became impossible.
In addition, a region where the Soviet era was much repression many people were shot or deported to Siberia. Instead to work in factories workers were brought from Russia, often they was prisoners.
Since 2004 Yanukovych began to contradistinguish Ukraine East (especially Donbass) to West and say that "Donbass all feeds" that "Western nationalists hate the Russian language." This is not true - it Donbass region "eats" most of subsidies from the budget. And we in the West perceive absolutely normal Russian language. Yes, West Ukraine is different from the East. It was only from 1945 in the Soviet Union. By that time - in the part of Poland or Austria-Hungary. But the cultural unity was always - here I can tell history from Kievan Rus, Bohdan Khmelnitsky, romantic 19th century. etc :)))
So I live in Lvov, which Russian propaganda calls "the basic unit of nationalism and fascism." In our city less than one million residents, 9% are Russians. Absolutely free on our streets everyone can speak Russian. We have 5 Russian schools, a Russian church, the Russian Cultural Centre. (for comparison - in the Crimea 25% Ukrainians and only 7 Ukrainian schools in the entire peninsula!, and now its are closing). On my street situated consulate of Russia, and I assure you - for all the time that I live here, and especially in the last six months it is not crushed, not beaten and not burned. Even after the invasion of Russia. But constantly picketed with placards)))
We tried to create a cultural exchange between the two regions - Lviv University make special quotas for training residents of Donbass, we make exchanges between institutions and exchanges between theater (I had recently worked in the theater), at Christmas we always invited students and children from Donbass to celebrate with us in West Ukraine, we settle them in chummeries or volunteer's families (Donbas haven't tradition ​​to celebrate Christmas, this tradition died there in Soviet times). Unfortunately, it was a drop in the sea of propaganda of contrasting "different parts of the country". And in the east constantly press and television (which belonged to the local criminal richmen) did this opposition, and Russian news agencies actively developed this subject last 10 years. This is a history for you to understand what's happen next.

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Тарас Федорчак

vor 1 Tag (bearbeitet)

+Julian K
The protests on Maidan Russian television and channels controlled by Yanukovych constantly exposed mercenaries bought by Americans, and then said "They are Nazis". This is not true - Maidan existed for their own money (I was there myself, though not always). Just look at the clothes people and homemade shields and plastic thin helmets to understand that there are no strong financial support. And who shall stand in the cold, without sleep, in appalling conditions, with danger of being beaten, arrested, and later became a real threat of being killed - for which money is that possible? Then they came up with a new course - "Nazis." But it's not true, Maidan was never against the Russians. It was against crime, for human rights and the right of our country to choose its own course without the brutal pressure of the neighboring country. On the Maidan Russian language sounded no less frequently than Ukrainian, and also there was a lot of Jews, Armenians, Tatars, Georgians, Poles, etc. - Well, of which fascism can talk? But to the east and Russia constantly showed all the worst point of view: they showed homeless, which occurred on the square, and especially filmed radical wing of the Maidan (of course, in every movement is some kind of radical wing). I am sure that this wing, there were people who really believed that the country is best to act radically - and also there were hired provocateurs.
I was in Kiev, December 1, after a very brutal beating of students protesters, when came to protest people from all over Ukraine. And then the evening is far later after a peaceful rally a small group of masked men went for some reason "to storm the presidential administration" - I can quite honestly testify that while in the street no one seriously was going for any storm, there was really no such sentiment. And that could count and a handful of young people wearing masks? Moreover, people from the Maidan when they saw these provocateurs rushed to stop them. But they waved bats and chains in front of the police, and then they hid behind .... rows of the same police. But then these shots from provocateurs started showing in the Donbas and to show as non-peaceful Maidan. Moreover - they interchanged events: shown if the first provocation took place near the presidential administration, and then "these aggressive protesters" was rightfully beaten by the police. If the Maidan was really so aggressive, he wouldn't stand about 2 months so peacefully on cruel cold. But people were tried to be peacefully how they could . They sang songs, shine by the flashlights. Painted posters and paintings, drew helmets, tents and plywood shields. On the Maidan came most notable artists, actors, scientists, professors, cultural figures of Ukraine! It is because it was peaceful and would be peaceful (Ruslana was face of the peaceful Maidan). Meanwhile authority tried to disperse Maidan. At Night. Then again - and again at night. After each time - hundreds of them that were beaten, dozens of illegally detained (arrested even those just passing along).
And for all the illegal actions of the authorities wasn't punished anyone, while in the streets began to arrest those who wore the blue and yellow ribbons (the color of the national flag). It became dangerous to walk on the streets of the capital oneself, even in pairs, because you could be arrested and noone knew about. Arrested even 70yearman!
Then appeared "titushky" - these athletes, which employs by authority in order to beat protesters. So the police net, because it does not beat, and protesters can be intimidating. They beat everyone who looked like the protesters, and then became generally no safe away from the Maidan square. Later started to smash the cars. First - cars with ribbons of color of the national flag, and then all indiscriminately - to more chaos in order that the government was able to say, "Maidan - is chaos."
And after all these appeared Molotov cocktail. It is hard to expect from people who are peacefully and they was beaten again and again that they will stand there and just wait new beating.
So - Poroshenko and Yatseniuk and Klitschko and Turchinov, which you blame the aggression - they tried to restrain people how they can, they convinced people in a peaceful solution, until it was possible. But when Yanukovych passed laws January 16 and we even was banned to protest, walk and ride more than 5 in group - all experienced their lives and basic human rights real threat. People went to protest to the parliament. They was blocked by the police (although we have no such law banning people en masse to go to parliament). And then began the fight. Sounded first shots of traumatic weapons and flew the first Molotov cocktail. It was scary. Police at least had ammunition and helmets, but clothing of protesters and thin plastic construction helmets protected too little. On the ground was a lot of blood. Even eyes rolled on pavement.... can imagine? This is because the police threw people light and noise grenades. They were thrown to disperse the
crowd, but by law, they can not throw closer than 2 metre near the people. But they threw them at people. And to these grenades they bind by tape screws, nuts and other small iron - they made from this real grenades! This iron scattered and wounded all pricked! And most suffered eyes .... They did not want to disperse the crowd, they wanted to destroy it. Then they poured water on people on a cold -20 degrees Celsius ... but most importantly - revealed, that fired not only traumatic weapons. Then was shot five people - and 4 of them were not radical, but most peasful protesters without any molotov coctails. At the funeral of one of them I was ....
It's hard to remember ....
And of course to the east and Russia their television showed only "aggressive protesters" with reasons why they suddenly no longer peaceful. And they told: you see - the Nazis!
And the effect of television is terribly difficult to remove. How many people I communicated - they can not believe that they have so much distorted information, it is too difficult to realise and suddenly see very different picture of events in which all what they like is disgusting and criminal. It is difficult to change the poles in the outlook. And I don't know if you will be able to believe me.. But I feel that I must tell all the truth that I had seen and heard.
About Donbass and Odessa I promise to write tomorrow, because I want to sleep too, sorry :)

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Julian K

vor 1 Tag

+ТарасФедорчак ok this is very interesting. The russian propaganda is more present in my mindset than i thought.
I will wait what you think about odessa then i have few more questions.

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ТарасФедорчак

vor 14 Stunden

+Julian K

Sorry for long delay,it's difficult to me translate so much text, I do it too slowly.

But I think that I have yet to explain to the end of the events on Maidan before going to other events that took place later.
When the violent confrontation on Instytutska (street leading from the Maidan to the parliament) already began almost every day there continued clashes. Was negotiated, but no one came to make concessions, because the two sides could not retreat. To better explain I made a list how to changed demands of the Maidan (except political leaders who were on the Maidan at the request of the people was established so-called Maidan Council, which includes politicians, cultural and religious leaders, social activists, journalists, people who gain confidence during recent events. Also there was Ruslana. How effective was this Council - it's hard to say. But at least it sounded requirements, expressed ideas, discussed ways to resolve the crisis. It was important that somehow coordinate the masses of the people, to produce constructive ideas. because, very difficult when there is a large mass (in different periods - from hundreds of thousands to over a million) to keep people from rash actions of the effect of crowd aggression, moreover, in the face of fierce pressure from the authorities (including physical). Therefore was important presence of moral authority - the most authoritative persons on Maidan were not politicians, but priests, singers (Ruslana, Svyatoslav Vakarchuk and others), writers and also - journalists, who have confidence and adequately covered the events on Maidan (many of them over the Maidan were beaten, in their aiming the camera shot, etc) - these people could reassure and convince the crowd to not make something wrong. Politicians in different time had a different trust. Most probably trusted was Klitschko - he most visited "hot spots" and personally "physical force" helped stop something if needed)

So there are Maidan requirements:

* before beating students November 30, 2013
- The signing of the association agreement with the EU
- Retirement Azarov government or at least the Minister of Foreign Affairs

* after November 30,
+
- Investigation and judgement for guilty of beating
- Dissolution of the police unit "Berkut", which was involved in beating
- The resignation of Interior Minister

* after laws January 16, 2014 (which banned protests)
+
- The abolition of laws January 16
- Retirement Azarov government
- The dissolution of parliament and early elections

* after February 18
+
- Yanukovych's resignation and judgement for him and his henchmen, guilty of mass casualties.

So. After the first death in January it became clear that on the one hand Yanukovych will not make concessions, for fear of losing power and being sentenced (still never any president in Ukraine shed blood, Maidan in 2004 was entirely peaceful), on the other hand people are not go away, because they know that if killed in front of the whole world in the street, then they will be out of Maidan in even greater danger.
Here I have explain the situation in Ukraine during the reign of Yanukovych. Because he - Representative criminal rich, then since 2002 when he first became prime minister started ... I do not know how to translate it ... they call it "wring out" - by any means to take business competitors - regular inspections of tax inspection, to simple takeovers employed people, physical threats and even sudden death businessmen, which has not found guilty. (Maidan 2004 in fact was also against Yanukovych - against criminals in power).

The police in this country became a attendants of wealthy men's interests in power - not as a metaphor, but literally. The courts were
corrupt and "selling" - and all knew about it. As president Yanukovych became threats and bribery "translate" MPs from the opposition
in his "coalition" (a rigged election - another story). So imagine - deputy elected by voting for one party, and when he found himself
in Parliament - went in a completely opposite direction. It is doubtful in terms of law, but in our country there is no legal mechanism for how this fight. So Yanukovych gathered more than 300 delegates - the number of which can make changes in our
constitution. This he did - parliament returned expanded presidential powers were president has until 2004. In general, after this
opposition was saying that we should hold new presidential elections since Yanukovych was elected to the other powers of other
authorities, and now as president functions changed. But the power of the opposition, which is lost number in parliament ignored.
Yanukovych changed the composition of the Constitutional Court (judicial body that only has the right to interpret the Constitution in
our country). Part of it is assigned quota president, part - of quota of parliament (ie in this case - again president), and another
part is appointed by the Congress of Judge. And there Yanukovych bribed anyone could. Thus, the Constitutional Court said that the
powers of the president is legitimate, and continued taking all decisions favorable to Yanukovych. Similarly, it was in the Supreme
Court of Ukraine - drove out all representatives of opposition. About lower courts I generally keep quiet. Then you probably know, began trials of opposition. We are rooting for them, not because they are so much loved, we just understood - if Tymoshenko in front of the whole world is so treated, what could be us - small insects!
And so it was - they continued "wring out" business, entrepreneurs make own deal was for small and medium buisness almost impossible.
Belonging to Yanukovych's friends or to Yanukovych's party ("Party of Regions") gave indulgence for any purpose. It was impossible to
achieve fairness and justice in the courts - no one dared and did not want to take a decision unfavorable power. Social activists who
were protesting against any illegal actions - just immediately arrested and condemned. And there was such a phenomenon that we have called "Major" - children of wealthy or high-ranking officials who are constantly entertained, spent tooo much money, could be drunk and rape everyone or crush someone by their cars - and know that no punishment for them it will not.

(Yanukovych's son Alexander after Yanukovych presidency, almost from scratch became one of the 100 richest in Ukraine, and a year
later - one of 50).

And besides was still a problem that Yanukovych phased out all ukrainian culture - decreased number of Ukrainian media (even in my Lviv, most Ukrainian city in Ukraine, if you approach the booth - see most publications in Russian), decreased number of Ukrainian school classes in the East and in Crimea, even on public channels almost stopped sounding songs in Ukrainian, cultural transmission about Ukraine. Understand it right - no one was against the Russian language, but in Ukraine as former colonies in Russia - ukrainian language is problem. Russian language is not dissapearing, in anyway it has country - the focus of development. Where can develop Ukrainian language, if not in Ukraine? I love my language and would like to make it live and sound. So it was not about any harassment of Russian, it about survival of Ukrainian .

Oh, one more thing.
It was in the wake of protests against all this the many of west ukrainians voted for the right-wing party "Svoboda" ("Freedom"). About it tell that it was a Nazi, etc. but this is not quite true - although it does have a fairly aggressive rhetoric. But people hoped that the party became passionate fighter against Yanukovych regime. However, on Maidan this policy partia proved particularly helpless. Personally I can not stand them, I think it uncultural. As far as I can see,ukrainian people in the party very disappointed. In the presidential election for "Svoboda" voted less then 1 %. About this batch of rumors that this party was supported financially by Yankuovych because it is profitable for him to frighten East Ukraine "aggressive fascist West", but I have no evidence. On the other hand, after many parties of the far right in Europe supported the annexation of Crimea (I think there is a plausibility http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141067/mitchell-a-orenstein/putins-western-allies), "Svoboda "severed relationship with them
and some revised its rhetoric.

It's about the conditions before the revolution. To help you understand - how desperate our situation was. In 2004, the Supreme Court
of Ukraine decided to re-run presidential election and thus legitimately and peacefully decided the contemporary crisis. Now there was no hope of any court or parliament. Yanukovych has usurped all power. Kennedy (I can't remember clearly) said "If you deprive people
of the right to peaceful protest, you get armed resistance."

While after the confrontation began on Instytutska, started kidnapping. Protesters are just kidnapped from the streets (yet still we
have dozens missing, about which no information). Someone then was arrested and immediately sentenced to several years (!). And many of them was found in the forest near Kyiv. Someone was just beaten and mutilated. And someone - dead. People was abducted just from hospitals even when they sought after injuries from these confrontations. Even to contact hospitals became dangerous. Doctors came to the Maidan and just there in the field as they could treated people there. Hospitals and equip in buildings nearby - in hotels, in the building of trade unions etc.

The Prime Minister submitted a resignation, but acting was appointed a close friend of the son of Yanukovych and nothing has changed.
Nobody was not punished, the laws are not repealed, people arbitrarily arrested and people continue to disappear. Europe and the United States "expressed concern." But Russia said about "fascist criminals attacked peace police". In this situation, the people on Maidan increasingly disappointed in negotiations feasibility and degree of aggression increased. But no one knew what to do.
Yanukovych began back in January levy troops to Kyiv to disperse Maidan. But people throughout Ukraine have started to block the troops. Eg in Lviv we did barricade near military units to prevent them from leaving. Constantly both day and night duty there at least a few dozen more people - and I am among them. We talked with the military - they do not wanted to go to Kyiv, feared that they ordered to shoot at people - and there could well be their relatives. But they dare not fulfill the order. Several times they broke, but we stopped them just by our bodies and by stones. In some areas where the military be able to leave, their intercepted on the road villagers, blocked them, not allowed to travel, and wrapped them back.

January 18 people on Maidan decided to go to parliament to protest to finally abolish the laws January 16 and demand the resignation of Parliament. Surprisingly, they almost missed by Parliament itself. And then began the greatest slaughter ... which lasted all day... hundreds maimed and bloodied ... special forces of police drove people to the Maidan beaten all indiscriminately .... and only there people can protected themselves with Molotov cocktails... and at night have already begun very seriously overclock Maidan.
Yanukovych even call to Kyiv not the police, but armed forces ... I heard a lot of battalions refused to go to Kyiv. Yanukovych even changed Commander ground forces ... but some battalions paratroopers from the east arrived yet. And just started hell.

Maidan stormed by tanks, armored personnel carriers. Minister of the Interior gave the order to shoot live ammunition at protesters all.

Many people then fled from the Maidan square. But many gathered that night and went to Kyiv. I remember crowds of men with self-made "body armor" from "sleeping pads" at Bus Stops. It was like war. In the morning it turned out that people are killed dozens. Their funeral priests just in hotel corridors, doctors were unable to even examine someone.
In Lviv we again stoped the military. Guys, which is yesterday talking to us, now throwing noise-grenades at us . To stop them set fire to the house nearest military. It was the official home and no one was hurt. Now we can speculate whether it was best way is also to do it. But then it was only one ability to stop war that drove an armored personnel carrier that they did not go to Kyiv kill our relatives and friends. Then in many cities took place, as it then was called "Night of Wrath" - people seized all power facilities and expelled officials representing power, government agencies - police stations, prosecutors, Security Service of Ukraine. Then the police actually dissapeared for a week in our cities and ourselves organized in patrols to be on duty on the streets and enforce the order (by the way the police then she admitted that at this time the number of crimes fell sharply). I was on duty with many guys at the Russian consulate in Lviv to prevent negative commit there and pogroms. But these attempts were not.

And then there was the most terrible night when burning building trade unions in Kiev and there burned many protesters. This house fired whole, at all, it has not recovered. People on Independence defended from attack only by fire - Cocktails and all that was able to fire. Initially burning machine tires because they create a curtain of fire that is difficult to overcome. But then, calla tires were low, thrown into the fire all - boards, foam, their tents, even stripped off their clothes and thrown into the fire. And thenbegan to approach people from different regions. I do not know how it would help to survive. They say some people who had home legal firearms began to bring her to the Maidan. People defended to the last. And then suddenly in the morning troops retreated. And in the morning during the retreat died dozens of people from the Maidan. All of them, who died during Maidan, then called "Heavenly Heroes" (if literally translated from Ukrainian "Heavenly Houndred (Century)") although who died were more than a hundred.
Later it turned out that during this night when killed people, Yanukovych packed their treasures and fled from Ukraine. And troops retreated, because, obviously, someone with command have already knew about this. Then shattered entire chain of command. Fled from
Ukraine most of the then Ministers (including - Interior), the Attorney General, some parlament deputies. Many deputies got out of Yanukovych's party. And so did the parliament could vote on the "withdrawal" Yanukovich and assign acting President newly elected the head of parliament.

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Тарас Федорчак

vor 14 Stunden

+Julian K

All this I explain you better understand events in the Donbass and Odessa.

The events in the Donbass. After all that passed on television, many of the locals were really convinced that the Nazis came to power, they want "to ban the Russian language", etc. etc. And that they will kill all Russians. Then came out the idea of separatism these areas, although any separate nation is not there, by censuses real majority (over 55%) identified themselves as Ukrainian. This is from 2004, as I told was started propaganda of division of Ukraine, and local rich men and politicians (in this region - this is the same things) started to use separatism as a means of blackmail when they were in opposition. When adopted laws unfavorable to their business or them personally threatened criminal investigation - they are taken out their workers in factories to demonstration to shout that "Donbass isn't heard by" and that "this is oppression of our region." After escaping Yanukovych some local rich men such as Akhmetov wanted in this usual way to bargain from a new government about integrity of their business and a lack of investigations origin of their capital. But miscalculated and lose, because Russia very seriously joined the game - and now their factories, entertainment facilities, stadiums and coal mines either don't work or are in ruins ...

The presence of Russia. From the very beginning of these protests, local residents clearly knew that these actions of breaking Ukrainian flags, shouting "we want to Russia" and stormed regional administrations take part many people from Russia. My friend, who until recently worked as a director in the Puppet Theater in Lugansk, told that distinguish between local residents and visitors from Russia is not very difficult - different pronunciations, in other words, and do not oriented on the locality. On one occasion, instead go to storm of regional council they came to storm Drama theatre, for they thought that it is Council :) Local ресідентс ironically called such visits with the up-and-downers "The Days of Russian Culture"

But really some part of their locals supported this (though as say my friends, there was actually a lot of drug addicts, homeless people, which is very easy to buy - so it is easy and there arose slaughter), was also part of the pensioners who have nostalgia for the Soviet Union. There wasn't too many supporters of Maidan in donbass, it's true. But most of locals didn't care and didn't want anyway take part in this all. No one thought that it will develop into a full war.

First, as I said, started to seize homes of government. To beat all that went up with other flags and was discordant. Police after fleeing Yanukovych remains the same corruption which they was, trained only on team "full face", "beat someone whom do not like authorithy" - that's why thay didn't enforce laws, and didn't make any resistance.
One should pay attention to the fact that Russia talks about these events as "response similar Maidan" and "reflection Maidan's events." But it is not. Maidan has been peaceful for a long time, but in Donbass events immediately began from slaughters. Maidan's people didn't beat people with different ideas (near the parliament Yanukvych camp brought their fans, they were called "Anti-Maidan"), and tried to speak to them and discuss (I myself did so even shared with them waffles :)) ). General events in the East, in contrast to the Maidan - absolutely anti-cultural. No culture, no any significant artist, a scientist or even any significant religious figure in protests in the East (on Maidan were always the most visible priests of all religions, even the Moscow Patriarchate of Ukraine, himself saw) .
Non-peaceful Maidan became in response to a real repeated mass beatings, and capture administrations in the regions during the Maidan were reaction to the real murder of real people in the capital. Nothing like it in unrest on the East. No any oppression of local residents. Nobody forbade Russian language and wasn't going to do that. No "Nazis" went to kill people in the East
or in the Crimea (if in Lviv? where I live, it wasn't anything like this - why someone with such a purpose would be to go to the East?) But it is with the slogan "Deliver us from the Nazis" people on East and Crimea in and out of shares. And Russia has declared the need to "protect the Russians." Explain to me - from whom? Who are threatened to them?
So without any real threat in the East began capturing and even pogroms public institutions. And then more - people were beaten not only by the "wrong line", but also for suspicious look or for absence capture the ideas of separatism. People began to detain and take a hostage. Eg my знайомство Pavel Yurov, thetre director, and his friend (an artist), - completely peasful people, a native of the city Anthracite (near Luhansk) and Donetsk, decided to see for themself what is happening in Sloviansk and were detained for no reason. They was kept in inhumane conditions in the basement of 70 days!

And when the local council deputy of Gorlivka (Donetsk region), a supporter of Ukraine Volodymyr Rybak, who tried to prevent Ukrainian reset flag, found in the river with ripped stomach .... it became clear that the line is crossed, that is no longer the protests, it is terrorism. And then, by the way, I first heard from my friend that the city saw Chechens - and it's completely different people with completely different language and appearance, they are not difficult to distinguish. And thay - thugs. However, many residents of Chechnya say that these soldiers can not call "Chechens" and should be called "Kadyrovtsy" because they betrayed their people and went to the service of Kadyrov, who sold their homeland to Putin. These thoughts I have seen communicating in Facebook.
As to the so-called separatists - among them there are a lot of Russian "volunteers" or mercenaries - no doubt, because communicating with the Russians in social networks, I found out that Russians know this and majority support. That's just the presence of regular Russian troops they doubt.
And now look at all these separatist leaders. Hirkin - chief strategist and chief separatists - a Russian citizen, a professional and experienced commando, was involved in the war in Yugoslavia, separtists riots in Transnistria and then in South Ossetia, "Defense Minister" self-proclaimed People's Republic of Donetsk. Boroday - General of the Federal Security Service of Russia, "Prime Minister"
self-proclaimed People's Republic of Donetsk.
Gybarev - a native of Donbass. But closely linked with Russia, a member of openly Nazi (for symbols and ideology) of "Russian National Unity" - look for information about it, whatever - I will help. And how can we believe in this if all the separatist movement - a popular initiative in response to the Maidan and it had to be prepared long before the Maidan?

The Russians initially denied the presence of its troops in the Crimea too - but then found! My friend from the Crimea (Krasnoperekopsk), which moved a month ago to live in our region told me that in March in touch with a few soldiers, and they do not hide that they - Russian soldiers. In social networks people found photos Russian boy-soldier. I went to him to glue pages - a real page with history, he is really cadet, I talked to his friends and sister, tried to convince that annexation - is bad, but they are sure that it was good, and we have be afraid and it's right. A proud son of Crimea. that is, they confirmed that he served in the Crimea.
And one more detail. Russia launched the "Medal for the return of the Crimea." I give you the link to it in Russian Wikipedia that you did not think that it is a fake.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C_%C2%AB%D0%97%D0%B0_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%89%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%BC%D0%B0%C2%BB#mediaviewer/File:%D0%9C%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C_%C2%AB%D0%97%D0%B0_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%89%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%BC%D0%B0%C2%BB_%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%81.jpg
Look at the date of transaction. Start - 20.02.2014. So - 20 February in Crimea there were no riots and "legitimate President Yanukovych," as he calls Russia was still in Kiev. February 21, he signed an agreement with the opposition brokered by Ministers of Poland, Germany and France. Only February 22 fled the Ukraine. That this "operation" began was not as a response to the removal of Yanukovych, she was preparing in advance.

Then there was this ridiculous referendum on the separation of Donbass, who trained for 2 weeks and voted on primitive photocopying piace of paper without any protection.
Yeah, and yet - you are absolutely wrong when you say that Poroshenko "bomb Donbass" - it was would be much easier to "bomb" Donbass despite victims. All the complexity is just that as promised Putin in his famous interview "We will be behind women and children - and let they try to shoot us." Yes they do, and tell my friends from the front: they do staffs of schools, kindergartens, hospitals near to impossible to shoot them . If it was just to "bomb" - the anti-terrorist operation would be completed in July. And so - most difficult is drive out victim when it comes to the release of terrorists - it was in Beslan, it was in the musical "Nord-Ost" in Moscow, in Chechnia.

As for the evidence that is now in Ukraine are almost openly regular troops of ...
Do You believe me when I say that during the negotiations military actions some of my friends talked to these military personal and none of them make secret that they - the soldiers of Russia? And if you want, you can find photos soldiers themselves of the their pages in social networks, where they tell the war in Ukraine (page deleted already, but photos and screenshots remain) or shots where they show dead Ukrainian soldiers and ironically this comment. And there is space shooting as far as I know, which traced a huge military column who enters the territory of Ukraine from Russia. Then there's "Committee of soldatskyh mothers" who organize protests demanding the return of their children from Ukraine. Corpses of these sons buried here in Ukraine with no name plate, or bring home and said "died on learning." If you come to the "Soldiers' Mothers of Russia Forum", you probably would find information about it. And about month ago ukrainian soldiers detained Russian paratroopers, for which Putin even didn't want to strain himself anything decent to lie and said that "they are entangled?" You can really believe that they are "entangled" in the exercise of 15 kilometers from the border ??!

And one more thing. A month ago minstr defense of Russia presented the Order of Suvorov to Pskov Division .
http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201408221150-12jt.хтм
Maybe you do not read Russian, but try to translate through a translator. I give you the link just to Russian media that was not accused of distortion. And that's - Division that present in Ukraine and many soldiers died from it here. It was their mother I had in mind when he said about it. Russia usually denies it, talks about "learning". But the Order of Suvorov is given only for conducting combat operations - not by "learning", not the achievement of organizational or pedagogical, not a "military modernization" - for combat operations only.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C_%C2%AB%D0%97%D0%B0_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%89%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%BC%D0%B0%C2%BB

Think, seek information from various sources, please. I am always ready to help.
Sorry again, but I haven't any energy for Odessa. Promise to continue tomorrow

13:34 29.09.2014
Dieser Beitrag gibt die Meinung des Autors wieder, nicht notwendigerweise die der Redaktion des Freitag.

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